Thursday, December 16, 2004

The Pledge of Allegiance??

Why does the Pledge of Allegiance say "One Nation, under God"?
Why does US currency say "In God We Trust"?
This country was founded by people wanting freedom from religious persecution. There is this little thing called "separation of church and state" So then, why was all of this "God business" added to things like the pledge and our currency?
To make matters worse, a few Christians find it necessary to continue the religious persecution by making an issue out of people who disagree with their personal beliefs. Just because a person thinks that the church should stay separate from the state, doesn't mean that they are a person without morals. It doesn't even necessarily mean they are not a religious person.
I read an article this morning about a man who serves as a trustee on the Town Board. He has for 12 years. He refuses to stand up and recite the Pledge of Allegiance at the beginning of the meetings (a recent addition to the town meetings this year) because he disagrees with the statement "under God." The board is moving to spend several thousand dollars to have a recall election to remove this man from office because of this.
I guess everything that man has done for the last 12 years means nothing because he somehow no longer represents the people of that area. *rolleyes*
I applaud this man for standing up in what he believes in, and I hope that more and more citizens of the United States continue to do so in the coming years.
This country was founded on freedom. It seems to be a lot of groups, particularly Christians, are very intolerant of anyone else's views. So because of a few loud-mouths and a bunch of weak minded followers, we get stuck having "God" in our pledge and on our money; we can't learn about the possibility of evolution, even in public schools; many cannot speak openly of their religious views (or lack thereof) because they will be called immoral people with no values.
Open your mind for a minute. Think logically; weigh all options. You don't have to accept what you have always heard, unless you truly believe it. But please, don't go around acting intolerant of others. It makes you look ignorant. Besides, aren't Christians are supposed to be tolerant of everyone, forgiving of everyone and loving of everyone?
I consider myself to be Patriotic. I love this country. I wish some of my fellow citizens would also love this country for what it is. It is our Great United States of America, not the United Parishes of God.


Blogger Site Admin said...

While I'm an agnostic person myself, the pledge of allegiance or the currency thing doesn't bother me. On those rare occasions when my wife drags me to church I won't pray with the group, but I will do the shake your hands "peace be with you" thing, 'cause there's just no reason to be rude.

Recently my wife had to start going to the parents version of religious instruction for the kids. The teacher told them when the kids start asking questions they can't answer, you should just say "it's a mystery". I ranted on for a few hours about how irresponsible, short sighted, narrow minded, and just plain wrong that kind of thinking was.

11:00 PM  
Blogger thuringwethil2004 said...

Well, being a Christian, I'm not opposed to those things. However, I'm also not opposed to those who are. The rights that allow someone to say "I don't want to pray, say the pledge of allegience,etc" are the same rights that allow me to say "I do." And that is what floors me about most Christians. They don't realize that when they fight the first amendment to keep non-Christians quiet, they are in essence going to silence themselves.
I am leaving the church I currently belong to because they have fired me for filing for divorce (which oddly enough i haven't filed yet) and they told me that only "The Session" (the board of the church) that only THEY can decide whether or not I have biblical grounds for divorce. I found this rather odd, b/c being a Christian, I was always taught that GOD was who I was accountable too. (BTW a big revelation from my church, physical violence is NOT grounds for divorce - so much for the loving part)
I also send my kids to private school and will soon switch to homeschool because I do want them to have prayer and religious instruction. I don't expect the public schools to provide this. And because I live in the United States I have the freedom to do this.
Although I don't believe Christians are taught to be tolerant of the immoral BEHAVIOR of others, they are told they should love, forgive, and accept the person (not the behavior).
To show the difference - am I supposed to forgive my husband for what he's done? yes. Am I supposed to tolerate his behavior and abuse? no.
But, I am more and more turned off by the "Christian" attitudes that I see that sometimes I am embarrassed to be associated with them.
Should there be separation of church and state? Yes. I think the real aim needs to be to bring back morals to this country, and you can do that without making everyone profess to be a Christian. I know some non-Christians with a lot better moral values than some Christians I know.

8:44 AM  
Blogger DiamondbackGS said...

Well, it seems you beat me to the punch Thur. And yes I'm a Christian too. I firmly believe in the separation of church and state. Though going with the tolerance topic, it sickens me how some people discriminate against Christianity. Present company excepted. Let me elaborate as to what I mean. Some people have a problem with nativities or other Christian things. Yet they won't have a problem with something of another religion (some Christians also have a bit of learning to do when it comes to tolerance). What the heck is up with that!? As John Stossel would say, Give Me a Break! That also reminds me of the Ten Commandments and people trying to take it out of public places. Yet they would agree with most of it (except for the first four). Most law is based upon the moral principles first layed out in the Ten Commandments. Besides, some of it is historical (having it posted). Until the Supreme Court rules against it being posted in government establishments, I'm going to stick to my guns on this issue.

I do though believe that the man and others should be able to abstain from reciting the pledge. Of course he could always omit the words "under God," which by the way weren't part of the original pledge. But it's his right too. Anybody remember when students abstained from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance during the Vietnam War and how they were reprimanded? Last I checked, abstaining from saying something is considered a form of speech protected under the First Ammendment.

5:17 AM  
Blogger Phillip Gray said...

First, you make the same mistake that so many other do. There is no such thing in the Constitution stating "Seperation of Church and State". What it does say that the "State" cannot setup it's own religion and cannot promote one religion over another.
Second, we have many laws that are religious based (these are called Blue Laws), here are just a few:
1.) In the State of Indiana you cannot sell Liquor or Automobiles on Sunday. (I can almost understand Liquor, but Cars?)
2.) In every state Pligimany is illegal. Now I have trouble keeping up with one wife, I would go insane (if not there already) with two and stark raving mad with even more.
3.) Prostitution. I do not agree with Prostitution, but I do not have the right (or desire for that matter) to force my beliefs on others.
These are just a few of the "Religous Laws" that have been upheld by the US Supreme Court.

You are right, however, as Christians we do not have the right to force our beliefs on others, nor are we admonished by GOD to do so. The Bible says "Go and Tell" not "Go and Convience", when we "Tell" we become a success in GOD's eyes.
"One nation under GOD" and "In GOD we Trust" covers all religious area's.
Finally, consider evolution. Under this theory, it cannot be proven but must be taken on "faith?". Sounds like a Religion to me.

3:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Geez, is it not enough that we have to listen to Thuringwethil whine about her personal life on SST that we now have to listen to her on someone's blog that is not even hers.

7:11 AM  
Blogger Becky said...

I could go on and on, but as a disclaimer, I would rather have a nice discussion over tea on this subject rather then just drop my naieve opinions on this subject like this, but here it goes:
1)I think this "God" is excluded from the government way more than included in its policies, so I think the score is pretty tied between God-Lovers and God-Haters and In-Betweeners.

2)Our whole country's ideals are based on those that benefit the greater, or common-er good. Back in the olden-days when we had four fathers (without any divorces) they saw that the ideals for this new country, if it was gonna be a good country, and stand for what is right, it had to stand up for what is right for the greater amount of people; and in those times, it just happened that religion, or "belief in a higher being of some sort" solved most of society's problems. Naturally, the laws of this generally believed-in God were something admirable, full of virtue and seeming based on the good of everyone. So, why not base the ideals of this new country on something that seems so "just" and "right", for the common good of the people. So although you may not believe in this same "God" or may not believe in any "God" at all ... its still okay to say the pledge. Its not a profession of Faith, its not the four fathers' way of trying to make everyone secretly worship God. It is no act of worship at all. Its simply pledging your allegiance to the country that happened to be based on a lot of the same virtues that this so called "God" stands for. Its recognizing the benining of our country. Though, if you do not want to pledge your allegiance to the country, thats up to you, but I dont think its a necessary profession of non-faith to NOT say it. Its like as if you were a Christian, and believed it was wrong to say the word "Jewish." Sure, Christians do not believe in the Jewish faith, but "just saying the word Jewish" or "admitting that Judaeism (SP?)is what Christianity rose from" is not WRONG. Christians can still recognize the Jewish faith, yet not believe in it. So why can't fellow non-believers-or-semi-believers-or-whatever-of-God-that-call-themselves-USA-patriots recognize the foundation of this country and refrain from feeling threatened by this word "God"?

2) Just because "separation of church and state" is not de-facto law (aka stated in the Constitution), its still considered basis of our laws because its common-law (aka established by the court system).
3) I understand if you don't want to say the pledge, but you should do it because you dont want to pledge allegiance to USA, not because you dont want to say the word "God". Although, if you're against using US currency because it says "In God We Trust", you can just send all your bills and extra change over here to me and you won't ever have to see them again. : )

7:08 AM  

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